tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post8414428278070354967..comments2024-03-26T19:47:09.310+08:00Comments on Lao Ren Cha - 老人茶: Dai GiJenna Lynn Codyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-64539749346538349622012-06-05T18:32:44.774+08:002012-06-05T18:32:44.774+08:00Greetings!
I am so excited to have stumbled upon y...Greetings!<br />I am so excited to have stumbled upon your blog (even though I really should be focusing on studying for my final exams haha.) Taiwanese has fascinated me because of my heritage (I'm an ABC with a mother who constantly brought me and the sister back to her homeland Taoyuan district when we were younger.)<br />Just a few points I'd like to mention:<br />-You note "Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-23717307718971943982009-05-27T15:16:32.242+08:002009-05-27T15:16:32.242+08:00Fair enough...I think Hoklo is also fine (I also w...Fair enough...I think Hoklo is also fine (I also won't argue with anyone who calls it "Minnanhua" that they shouldn't...just that I won't). I use "Taiwanese" because in Taiwanese, the word is "Dai gi" which means "Taiwanese". So I'm trying to call it the closest English equivalent to what the speakers of it use to refer to their own language.<br /><br />I asked a student today, one who I know Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-71834067550876041152009-05-26T08:58:57.461+08:002009-05-26T08:58:57.461+08:00Sorry for taking so long to come back with a follo...Sorry for taking so long to come back with a follow up to my previous comment. Nobody has mentioned the use of "Hoklo" to refer to the version(s) of Minnan spoken in Taiwan. I think this is probably the most politically correct term and seems preferred by some media and academics. I usually use this term. <br /><br />The problem is that the term Taiwanese is misused/abused. Some people Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13061413827755873948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-70870397830572869992009-05-26T06:30:17.203+08:002009-05-26T06:30:17.203+08:00Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian are effectively dia...Swedish, Danish, and Norwegian are effectively dialects of the same language and are less different from each other than are the Italian of Milan and the Italian of Sicily. Malay and Indonesian are effectively the same language separated by a political border. And practically the only differences between Romanian and Moldovan are vocabulary differences that developed while the latter was spokenBrendanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00847368266562961223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-75677002273446152492009-05-25T21:34:41.277+08:002009-05-25T21:34:41.277+08:00As a native Taiwanese speaker,I always say " I spe...As a native Taiwanese speaker,I always say " I speak Taiwanese " when I am asked by other people. I didn't know " Minanhua " until I started going to school. Because teachers told me " You shouldn't say Taiwanese, it's Minanhua. " but everybody knows it's hard for us to communicate with those people really from Fujian or Minan very well.<br /><br />and I agree with 阿牛 about 漳州 and 泉州.as we know Sashanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-57141269365403657932009-05-25T21:23:41.961+08:002009-05-25T21:23:41.961+08:00By the way, I'm not saying that the original split...By the way, I'm not saying that the original split didn't occur in Fujian...obviously it did. That's proven.<br /><br />I'm just saying that 400 years of settlements in northern and southern Taiwan (most of it with poor transit systems) have almost certainly helped deeper differences evolve, because that's how language works. I don't see how it could not have happened!Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-78289275032721702932009-05-25T21:05:06.988+08:002009-05-25T21:05:06.988+08:00Fair enough, I mean you can call it whatever you w...Fair enough, I mean you can call it whatever you want (Southern Min, Taiwanese, whatever). I still don't think Southern Min is an appropriate term, which is why I say "Taiwanese" - how many native Taiwanese speakers say "I speak Southern Min"? Approximately zero, from my experience. They say "I speak Taiwanese" (in Taiwanese). <br /><br />I totally see where David is coming from in that "Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-91676670705757798792009-05-25T14:07:28.253+08:002009-05-25T14:07:28.253+08:00I, too, consider Southern Min to be an appropriate...I, too, consider Southern Min to be an appropriate term for the language, which includes many dialects other than Holo Taiwanese. Though just how political the term sounds depends on how it's used. <br /><br />The primary reason for the North-South split of the language in Taiwan actually originates from Fujian, with the vast majority of Taiwanese immigrants coming from either 漳州 or 泉州, which 阿牛https://www.blogger.com/profile/08403972286057197709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-64351191038662176162009-05-24T01:12:22.244+08:002009-05-24T01:12:22.244+08:00And Sasha - that's just what I mean! Minnanhua (s...And Sasha - that's just what I mean! Minnanhua (southern Fujian) may be the same mutually intelligible language as Minnanhua (Taiwan), though I'd argue that they're not quite so mutually intelligible anymore simply because how does one communicate those simple words like "teacher" and "old woman"? - but that doesn't mean they are identical.Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-20343573427991391142009-05-24T01:09:43.820+08:002009-05-24T01:09:43.820+08:00I know their views don't reflect the mainstream of...I know their views don't reflect the mainstream of Taiwanese society (I'd be very worried if they did)...but I doubt anyone would disagree with me that a huge amount of Taiwanese language (or Taiwanese Minnanhua, but not Minnanhua as it's spoken in Fujian - see why I say "Taiwanese" and not "Minnanhua"?) vocabulary comes from Japanese, especially Taipei Taiwanese.Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-55585040030372247122009-05-24T00:48:48.816+08:002009-05-24T00:48:48.816+08:00Hey,Jenna.i forgot to clarify about the way we say...Hey,Jenna.i forgot to clarify about the way we say " doctor " in Taiwanese. as the differenct of 語音 and 讀音, we only say "dai hu " for the doctor.(but it's new for me to hear of "dai fu",too. probably different accent...) I am just back from 唐伯虎點秋香 tonight,it's AWESOME !!<br /><br />Hey,David,Taiwanese isn't 100% from FuJian language. Actually,for the parts from China,FuJian,QuanZhou,ZhanZhou,Sashanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-61860125869004079822009-05-23T22:14:13.729+08:002009-05-23T22:14:13.729+08:00Let me apologize ahead of time because my comment ...Let me apologize ahead of time because my comment is not exactly on topic, which I know is probably annoying. I looked for your email on your blog so I could just email you my question instead, but I couldn't find it. Sorry!<br /><br />I see you go to the Mandarin Training Center. How do you like it? I live by NCCU, so naturally I wanted to go there. But not only is their price almost 30,000 NT, Cahleen @ The Alt Storyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14704918285007073873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-60980358764217380292009-05-23T18:15:37.290+08:002009-05-23T18:15:37.290+08:00Shi-Da teachers are another story. However, in gen...Shi-Da teachers are another story. However, in general, their views do not reflect the mainstream views of Taiwanese society.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13061413827755873948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-37882131220398141892009-05-23T09:48:30.894+08:002009-05-23T09:48:30.894+08:00Sorry the above is so poorly written. I didn't sl...Sorry the above is so poorly written. I didn't sleep well and haven't finished my coffee.Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-28528337291006957052009-05-23T09:47:10.519+08:002009-05-23T09:47:10.519+08:00And hey Sasha, the secretary at work (a native spe...And hey Sasha, the secretary at work (a native speaker of Taipei-style Taiwanese) doesn't say "dua hu" for doctor, she says "daifu". :)<br /><br />You can rest assured that I'm learning not only the bad language you've taught me. Yesterday, when my student was late for a class held at my office (a rarity - most of my classes are at the offices of my clients), the secretary and I had a nice Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-81952993084448957202009-05-23T09:44:34.993+08:002009-05-23T09:44:34.993+08:00I see what you mean about it being a misnomer, tho...I see what you mean about it being a misnomer, though there's not much that can be done about that. Part of why I posted this is that I'm a little annoyed about how my teachers at Shi-da call it "Minnanhua" but they way they talk about it, and refer to it as "Southern Fujianese", there's a clear undercurrent of thinking that people in Taiwan and people in China are one and the same.<br /><br />Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-87530006893301694682009-05-23T09:31:13.686+08:002009-05-23T09:31:13.686+08:00Some people in Taiwan consider the use of Taiwanes...Some people in Taiwan consider the use of Taiwanese a misnomer. Actually Taiwan has many languages -- Chinese and Austronesian -- so why should one of these be labelled Taiwanese. Using Minnan is clear and unambiguous, I don't see it as a problem. The differences in pronunciation around Taiwan relate to people migrating to Taiwan from different parts of Fujian Province.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13061413827755873948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-8594690835534675012009-05-22T23:53:37.176+08:002009-05-22T23:53:37.176+08:00there are 2 different systems to read Taiwanese. s...there are 2 different systems to read Taiwanese. so even 大夫(the doctor ) in 語音(orally pronounciation) is Dua Hu. but 讀音(literally pronounciation) is Dai-Hu. so I would say Dai-Hu is not from Japanese.<br /><br />it's interesting to learn Taiwanese. and actually I think Taiwanese is more elegangt than Chinese. but most people don't know how to speak elegant Taiwanese. therefore, Taiwanese is Sashanoreply@blogger.com