tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post756716399772377958..comments2024-03-26T19:47:09.310+08:00Comments on Lao Ren Cha - 老人茶: In Defense of Taiwanese Men Part IIJenna Lynn Codyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-67557792244621113632012-12-20T17:10:17.367+08:002012-12-20T17:10:17.367+08:00Those poor Taiwanese men!
Lucky they've got y...Those poor Taiwanese men!<br /><br />Lucky they've got you in their corner!<br /><br />Don't get angry-- I think it is an interesting topic :)<br /><br />But if the discussion topic is "why do western men say that Taiwanese men are insufficiently masculine", then I can't say much on that particular topic until I meet some of the western men you are talking about.<br /><br />John Scottnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-27613777316658165822012-11-13T17:02:58.216+08:002012-11-13T17:02:58.216+08:00Yes, and thank you. This white American guy living...Yes, and thank you. This white American guy living in Taiwan couldn't agree with you more. Sadly, a lot of (or most, or all) guys will never give these ideas the credence they deserve. =(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-335880232337329162012-11-03T22:56:18.573+08:002012-11-03T22:56:18.573+08:00It seems that there are too many comments from whi...It seems that there are too many comments from white men offended by the article.<br />Please, there is no reverse sexism or reverse racism. White men, check your privileges.<br />And yes, you can generalise Western (white) male expats (partly) because of the said privileges.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-42086606016630672212012-10-27T16:39:03.725+08:002012-10-27T16:39:03.725+08:00Considering that I didn't even know if you wer...Considering that I didn't even know if you were a man (you're "Anonymous" after all), and was saying that you & Mike (if you are in fact different people) are being douchey, it was based on your words, not your gender.<br /><br />All I have to say otherwise is that, assuming again that you are the same anonymous who posted above (there is more than one, it is very confusing)Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-13455480518307407282012-10-27T16:31:40.081+08:002012-10-27T16:31:40.081+08:00To be very clear - I really, truly do not mean tha...To be very clear - I really, truly do not mean that this is the attitude of every Taiwanese woman who dates a Western man. There's a subset of Taiwanese women who actively prefer Western men whom I have heard say things like this (the preferences listed above are from their mouths, not my speculation), but I would not say that every one would agree with this, or that every Taiwanese woman whoJenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-51013754475639170362012-10-26T17:35:25.005+08:002012-10-26T17:35:25.005+08:00While it is true that this is more the case in chi...While it is true that this is more the case in china and japan, your recent comment was that western masculinity was the problem. From your comment, it's clear that you really don't understand masculinity in asian cultures - which leads me to believe you really don't know these cultures very well. <br /><br />There are also greater resources for males to understand themselves in theAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-24084212217171466072012-10-26T16:29:23.739+08:002012-10-26T16:29:23.739+08:00CP - you're right, it does, but I don't th...CP - you're right, it does, but I don't think that has to do with being effeminate. In my observation, even though it's easy for a white guy to get a Taiwanese girlfriend here, those same Taiwanese women seem to complain a lot about things like chest hair, not carrying purses (not a common complaint but I have heard it a few times) and "smell" (I don't understand that Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-43200471546497418162012-10-26T16:19:19.943+08:002012-10-26T16:19:19.943+08:00I'll reply, Jenna, in a post, and will alert y...I'll reply, Jenna, in a post, and will alert you here when it has been written and posted. I may or may not comment on quite a number of things; anyway, I'm certain that I'll focus on (1) why I feel this entire topic is problematic and not very worthwhile in the first place; and (2)why I feel it greatly matters that discourse rarely if ever be cheapened through direct-address vinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-75205596755060156202012-10-26T11:17:17.136+08:002012-10-26T11:17:17.136+08:00I am an overseas Chinese with a Taiwanese backgrou...I am an overseas Chinese with a Taiwanese background and when I came to Taiwan and saw all these white guys with local girlfriends whilst hardly seeing the inverse, I admit feeling some annoyance. It also rankled me that it was apparently easy for all these guys to get Taiwanese girls. Seriously, almost every single white guy I've met has a Taiwan girlfriend, no matter how long they've Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-39173963833602944362012-10-25T15:45:27.289+08:002012-10-25T15:45:27.289+08:00And I say call a spade a spade - don't name-ca...And I say call a spade a spade - don't name-call for no reason whatsoever, sure. I'm with you there. But if a person's being a douche, don't hide behind being "nice" - tell 'em they're being a douche. They probably won't hear it, but it's better than acting as though it isn't true.<br /><br />Plus, the worse name-call in this thread is the one in Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-51678828032721994382012-10-25T15:10:19.619+08:002012-10-25T15:10:19.619+08:00Once the name-calling starts, it's arguing jus...Once the name-calling starts, it's arguing just to argue or else it's people arguing psst each other. That's people arguing and not getting along. <br /><br />People can argue quite vociferously on ideas without resorting to name-calling; that's arguing, but, more fundamentally, still getting along.<br /><br />I'm not arguing against arguing. I'm maintaining that vinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-49288778660025472662012-10-25T13:55:51.372+08:002012-10-25T13:55:51.372+08:00If people ignore or tacitly condone (or simply fai...If people ignore or tacitly condone (or simply fail to condemn) sexist or hateful ideas in the name of "getting along", then that's basically implying they are accepted, or even right. You can think whatever you want and say almost anything you want (there are limits - you can't legally threaten others or plagiarize, for instance), but when hate, or when people demeaning others Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-14728830566340500112012-10-25T12:25:40.944+08:002012-10-25T12:25:40.944+08:00People arguing past each other; people arguing and...People arguing past each other; people arguing and name-calling just to argue and name-call. To quote Rodney King, "Can we all get along?" People arguing past each other; people arguing and name-calling just to argue and name-call. People arguing past each other; people arguing and name-calling just to argue and name-call.<br /><br />I love my opinions. I love my opinions.vinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-15850829358261951782012-10-24T23:47:02.808+08:002012-10-24T23:47:02.808+08:00Uh, according to the rules of not being a doucheba...Uh, according to the rules of not being a douchebag. I think more than one person (me) would agree there. <br /><br />Just because a word - "masculinity" - is an English word and you come from a Western culture doesn't mean that "Masculinity" as a concept doesn't exist in other cultures or parts of the world, and it doesn't mean your cultural standpoint is the Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-76670124879639918802012-10-24T01:39:23.352+08:002012-10-24T01:39:23.352+08:00"...people here who seem to STILL be defining...<i>"...people here who seem to STILL be defining masculinity based on a Western standpoint as though that is the only universal standard.</i><br /><br />I can't speak for anyone else here, but I can answer that point for myself.<br /><br />The concept "masculinity" is a description of several attributes (among which are physical strength, depth of voice, facial complexion and Mike Faganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08745281285031316740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-61387535131115988442012-10-23T21:31:57.439+08:002012-10-23T21:31:57.439+08:00As for why the birthrate in Taiwan is so low, no, ...As for why the birthrate in Taiwan is so low, no, that's not about masculinity. I explored it in a post ages ago. You can go find it if you want. <br /><br />It has way more to do with economics (young folks who can afford more than their parents could, as a part of the first generation of Taiwanese raised in relative comfort, and who don't want to sacrifice that to raise kids, and who Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-58607416693977238692012-10-23T20:56:40.693+08:002012-10-23T20:56:40.693+08:00Also, I'm not "interested" in Taiwan...Also, I'm not "interested" in Taiwanese men. I'm married. I'm just sayin', a lot of Western guys (and some women, but mostly guys) are unfair in their assessment of Taiwanese men. If I were single I would be interested, but I'm not.<br /><br />I posted a picture of Daniel Henney because the world is a better place when there is Daniel Henney to look at. :) But reallyJenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-5941509112968094292012-10-23T20:53:17.901+08:002012-10-23T20:53:17.901+08:00Also, I'm a woman. I obviously do not have as ...Also, I'm a woman. I obviously do not have as much testosterone as a man. I am not slight or petite, but I am clearly a woman with female features. You would probably, if you knew me, call my outlook and attitude more "masculine" than my testosterone-tacular husband. I am more aggressive. I tend to plow through situations rather than avoiding them. I am confrontational (couldja Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-615595791250047392012-10-23T20:45:06.588+08:002012-10-23T20:45:06.588+08:00Again, there are a lot of people here who seem to ...Again, there are a lot of people here who seem to STILL be defining masculinity based on a Western standpoint as though that is the only universal standard. My main point is that that's narrowminded and not a good way to go about such an observation. I also still see a lot of subconscious insecurity masked as bravado in such comments. I can only chuckle. <br /><br />The thing is, I don't Jenna Lynn Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04032277820150000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-47538969279391300172012-10-23T12:48:24.621+08:002012-10-23T12:48:24.621+08:00part 2)
In regards to masculinity as defined by ...part 2) <br /><br />In regards to masculinity as defined by taiwanese culture, I'm guessing you've never had a conversation with elderly taiwanese about what they perceive to be the degradation of their society? (or japanese, or chinese) you've never heard an old taiwanese woman saying disgustedly that she can't tell if someone is a man or woman?<br /><br />In regards to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-59621449517462648822012-10-23T12:46:50.960+08:002012-10-23T12:46:50.960+08:00part 1)
so….your "opinion" tops science...part 1) <br />so….your "opinion" tops science? let's hear it for your education. as for your opinion of men - I have no idea who you hang out with, or what clubs you go to, because I've never seen these men you speak of… do they really exist? in enough numbers to make a generalization? sounds more like a hollywood portrayal than anything else. <br /><br />about "Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-67830105905491308312012-10-23T12:21:07.738+08:002012-10-23T12:21:07.738+08:00Just an aisde- Daniel Henney isn't full Asian,...Just an aisde- Daniel Henney isn't full Asian, nor Taiwanese, - half-white actually; and even if he was, he was brought up in the States and speaks no Korean. If you're so interested in defending Taiwanese men, can't you post a Taiwanese guy?<br /><br />CPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-82070364512534025462012-10-23T10:15:14.187+08:002012-10-23T10:15:14.187+08:00LOL, Jenna. You sure touched a nerve with some fo...LOL, Jenna. You sure touched a nerve with some folks! <br /><br />It's all about perceptions of masculinity, isn't it? And not just masculinity, but also how we react to beauty. Some of us may respond to these perceived displays of effeminacy through the lens of some kind of Western norms of male attractiveness (such as having muscles and deep voices) and see girlish aspects in the Marcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-44357900084350863132012-10-23T04:05:52.939+08:002012-10-23T04:05:52.939+08:00There is generally a trend in the world to retrogr...There is generally a trend in the world to retrogress into the happy infantile state of mind, as a symptoms of the entitlement-of-course me-me-me me-too-me-only modern mindset. The younger the generation, the stronger the tendency.<br /><br />Infantile state of mind is generally seen as girly or effeminate.<br /><br />This is both apparent in the East (most notable in affluent welfare/entitlementAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6321329750397667796.post-3047851626602947462012-10-23T03:49:32.453+08:002012-10-23T03:49:32.453+08:00Thought you might like this link Jenna:
http://ww...Thought you might like this link Jenna:<br /><br />http://www.feministezine.com/feminist/modern/White-Male-Privilege.html<br /><br />Quite frankly, I believe that we could do less with gendered lens in culturally interpreting actions of men of Other races and creeds. For instance, I have seen many African or moslem men hold hands as a gesture of friendship, but no-one thinks of them as effeminateLotuspondnoreply@blogger.com